Hi from TL owner!
 

Hello everyone and thanks for having me on the forum.

I have a 1985 Bedford TL with PJK body. It is an ex-mobile library van. I lived in it for years, and for the last few years have been staying in it midweek to save a long commute to work. It has been my home and my recording studio, and I love it.

It hasn't turned a wheel in anger for 11 years.
When I had to move it from its previous home, I had it taken ten miles on a low-loader for £350.

I have to move it again by Easter.
Only this time I'd like to take it to its final resting place in mid-France.
At the above rate this would cost me about £21,000!

So unless I can find a caravan mover to move it (much) more cheaply for me, it may well be time to get it on the road properly.
The engine (5.7 turbo diesel) starts and runs, which is a good start.
But the air brakes jam on as soon as there is enough pressure in the air tank and I have to release them by operating the air doors. So brakes are either very firmly on, or non-existent.

I have no idea what else has perished and/or needs doing to get her back on the road.
Does anyone know someone in the Somerset area who might be able to have a look and give me a more expert view on it please?

Many thanks for reading and understanding that I don't want to part with my lovely van. :)

Warm wishes
Mark

Hi Mark.

A very warm welcome from the sunny Isle of Anglesey. I'm sure someone on the forum (maybe our resident Vauxhall/Bedford expert) might be able to help you with your problem.

Hmm, a recording studio you say? Sounds interesting!

Welcome to Truck and Bus Forum, Mark.

I don't understand what you mean by 'doors'.

If the brakes are locked on it sounds like the fault lies with the parking brake control. Maybe this is interlocked with the 'doors'?

Finding a way of disconnecting the supply to the doors (if that is what the problem is) might resolve your problem.

There should be separate supplies for the service brakes and the parking brake - what do the gauges show?

A Bedford PJK is a bus/coach chassis (formerly known as VAS) and not a TL truck chassis - and would be more likely for a mobile library. The J indicates a six-cylinder 330 cu in diesel engine - a good reliable engine which should provide adequate power.

The problem with your brakes mean that you need a mechanic that can visit the vehicle (unless you get it transported).

Any competent air-brake engineer should be able to locate and identify the fault. Try contacting your nearest truck dealer and see if they can recommend one of their mechanics who would be prepared to come out and 'have a look'.

Alternatively look in your local paper and see what there is or talk to local truck or coach operator (many do their own servicing - at least emergency breakdowns).
In fact I would look for a small local coach operator first - at least they could tell you who does their repairs.
See here for coach operators near Frome:- https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fr...FoaRhQeJ9IC4Cg

The VAS / PJK is much-favoured by (new age) 'travellers' (not the wealthy Irish ones) so if you have a site near you (Glastonbury?) you could ask them what they do when they have problems with their air systems.

See here for travellers' PJKs:- http://www.travellerhomes.co.uk/?s=189

Crown Tours of Frome used to run PJK/VAS coaches, so they should have someone who can help you:-
http://whotalking.com/flickr/PJK

http://www.flickr.com/photos/40381926@N05/7920226092

I don't know if they are still trading (or what their current name might be) - ask one of the current coach operators . . .

Edited to add:- See here:- http://www.flickr.com/photos/49899125@N03/7582291640/

Hmm, a recording studio you say? Sounds interesting![/QUOTE]

Thanks Chris.
yup, and here's pictorial proof!

thanks so much for all the valuable information and help.
I'll see what/who I can find to help me out.
by doors, I mean the folding doors on the side of my van that are operated by a switch and use the same compressed air as the brakes to function.
I was quite shocked to find a picture of my van on Travellers Homes: http://www.travellerhomes.co.uk/?p=10015
I guess Gary Conway has a very keen eye!
I'll see if I can put an artier pic or two up on here...

all the best
Mark

Thanks Chris.
yup, and here's pictorial proof![/QUOTE]

Many thanks for that Mark, very interesting. Any recordings you want aired (albeit slightly low key currently) you know where to send them!

The air supply and storage circuit for the brakes should be 'protected' (by a protection valve) and shouldn't be affected by the doors. This is a legal requirement, so you have a problem there.

The air reservoir that stores the service-brake air should fill (and stay filled) before any air is available to the auxiliaries such as the doors - unless someone has broken-in to the circuit and changed things. Likewise you should have footbrake air independent of the parking brake (hold-off) air - though a safety measure can be to bring on the parking brakes (which are held off by springs) when the air supply to the service brake falls below a certain value.

I'm trying to fathom what your problem is - the brakes themselves are hydraulic (though air-activated). There should be non-return valves on the storage tanks that should 'protect' the stored air and prevent it from being depleted by auxiliaries such as the doors.

Exhausting the door air shouldn't stop the service brakes from working (a legal requirement).

It seems a shame that, whilst the engine runs and can obviously supply air to operate the doors you nevertheless cannot drive the vehicle as your brakes don't work. Of course there can be other things than lack of air preventing the brakes working (such as lack of hydraulics).

You definitely need a fleet engineer to look at your vehicle and give you a diagnosis before you spend megabucks transporting it.

As I suggested, seek out local transport operators (preferably coach operators that would have used medium-sized vehicles with air/hydraulic brakes) and see if they have someone who could come and look at your vehicle in situ.

There may be panels on the floor that give access to the reservoirs and the valves that should protect the air from escaping.

that's really kind Chris. I'm listening to your station at the moment - owzat!

the old recordings are all accessible from lordsofmisrule.co.uk, the new uns are still at the demo stage. hoping to get back to them before the winter's out and before I have to move my van!

best of luck with Cable962!
Mark

Thanks again G-CPTN.
Everything you have said makes perfect sense. It felt like a pretty serious problem when I had to drive it down the farmyard, onto the low-loader and then into a different farmyard!
I'll find someone to have a look, and I'll keep you posted with any news.
I really appreciate your intelligent and knowledgeable help. :)
all the best
Mark

There is an inconsistency here IMO. I don't have a diagram of the brake circuit for a PJK (or a VAS), but with no air the parking brake should be applied (by the springbrake), and with air available, operating the parking brake lever should release the parking brake. Operating the doors will exhaust the stored air down to a level that allows the service brakes (using the footbrake) to operate. With no pressure on the footbrake there should be no brakes applied (apart from the parking brake).

If things are as you describe then there is something wrong (which you already know of course). It is possible that someone has re-plumbed the the system to suit the static use, but it still doesn't make sense to me.

One possibility is that the footbrake is permanently applied (ie the pedal is jammed down or the internals have deteriorated and are allowing air through to apply the (service) brakes.

Have you ever driven this bus or did you acquire it as a static?

Under what conditions are the brakes free? :confused:

Curiouser and curiouser...

yes, I drove it when I bought it, and all was fine brakewise. so unless someone has doctored them in the meantime without my knowing (highly unlikely, but then it was pretty unlikely to find a pic of my van on the internet when it was buried deep in a Somerset farm!), then I must be remembering it wrongly or not describing the symptoms properly.
the van was certainly kangarooing around a fair bit, but I put that down to the juddery clutch.
hmmm...
I may have to tie everything down, hook up a battery and try again so I can be clearer about the symptoms.

thanks again for your knowledge and help.

Many thanks Mark, I'll go and look shortly.:)

I like your version of Wild Side of Life!!!

thanks Robert!
the speeding up at the end was entirely intentional of course, and nothing to do with tiredness at the end of a mammoth recording session ;)

12v or 24v?
 

Hello again.

I've packed the van down ready to try to start it, and then to get to the bottom of the brake problem. Last time I started it, I connected it to the two leisure batteries I was using, and it started first time. Since then, those batteries have died and I've replaced them with a single 12v leisure battery.

I can't remember what the original configuration was - were the main batteries hooked up to give 12v or 24v?
If I need more than one battery, does anyone have any advice as to what I should get and where would be a good place to get it or them please?

Thanks again for your help and sorry for my ignorance.

All the best
Mark

It depends on the GVW of the model.

Best clue is to remove a bulb and check the voltage inscribed on it.

Thanks for the super-speedy reply G-CPTN. :)

I'll do that next time I'm there. I'll report back, and then would appreciate any advice you can give on size of battery(ies) and where to get hold of them please.

I would try a truck breakers yard first (they remove the batteries from vehicles, and some of them will be much younger than the vehicle). You will also get the necessary link cable if you need two batteries.

The battery holder should give you a clue as to the size of battery needed.

Also try your local commercial vehicle factor.


See here:- http://www.ukhippy.com/stuff/showthr...JK-Library-Bus

That's really helpful. Thanks.

...and thanks too for the link. Great to see the interior as it would've been. And some very helpful links within the link too!

next stage...
 

the engine started perfectly first time with two breakers yard batteries and some fresh fuel. :)

when I run the engine, the pressure for the air brakes builds to about 4 bar nice and quickly, and then starts to drop off. also the air is not reaching the tanks further back under the vehicle.

does anyone have a picture of the layout of the braking system please?

See:- http://www.truckandbusforum.com/gall...hp?i=32634&c=5

Is 58 psi enough to run an air brake system?

A 'protection valve' operates by limiting leakage (by 'protecting' the other circuits (reservoirs) to preset limits.

It sounds as if (maybe) the pipework supplying the air-doors is leaking and the normal supply to the service reservoirs isn't happening as the protection valve is preventing 'leakage'.

Normally, the air circuits would be arranged such that ancillaries (such as air doors) wouldn't be supplied until the service reservoirs were charged to at least the protection pressure.

In a working system, there should be enough air feeding the reservoirs to provide at least secondary performance before any air is 'leaked' to the ancilliaries.

Look for an airleak in other than the service-brake reservoirs (possibly an unprotected add-on or modification of the piping).

Of course you might have failure of both air reservoirs (such as missing connections or holed reservoirs) but it seems unlikely.

You might have to try disconnecting pipes to see which ones don't have air coming out and which one is leaking away the air after the protection valve has opened (at 4bar).

Don't forget my earlier advice to seek assistance from the local bus operator or a (maybe retired) mechanic.

It's almost impossible to diagnose from afar, but an experienced mechanic should be able to home-in on the fault quickly when faced with the hardware.

Is the footbrake valve jammed in the on position?
Air should only go to the servo when the pedal is pushed, but if it was jammed down the air pressure would never build up . . .

Gosh.

Thanks ever so much not only for the brake circuit diagram, but also for all the advice. Absolutely invaluable.

I'm going over again on Wednesday armed with this new info and a good engineer. I have followed your advice and found a local (not yet retired!) man who knows his Bedfords and does MOTs, and recovery. So the bare minimum I need is to be able to drive it 100 yards and out through a gate for his recovery vehicle. Preferable would be to get it to a good enough state to drive it to a booked MOT at his garage.

I'll keep you posted as to progress.
You are a most helpful man.
Thank you!
Mark

Encouraging news!

Keep us informed of the findings.

:)
of course G-CPTN!

Your 1985 PJK should have a triple-protection valve (as shown on the HMVF illustration) rather than the simple non-return valves on the main reservoirs.
Looking at the http://www.truckandbusforum.com/gall...3/imgp9440.jpg illustration will help you (and your mechanic) get an idea of the layout.
Ignore the extra components for the trailer brakes and the winch!

Your air doors should be fed from the third port on the triple-protection valve (which should be on a chassis sidemember somewhere between the condensing tank and the two main reservoirs).

It might be difficult to trace things unless you can get the bus over a pit or on a hoist, though you might have floor panels that can be lifted.

Who did you use?
 

Hi hope you got her all sorted. I have just bought a 1976 pjk dominant bus and not far from you at Bruton. Who did you use to do the work as mine needs a good service and mot after being stood for last 18 months.
Also any help from members as to who to identify engine, gearbox makes would be most helpful.
Thanks

If you have a PJK it would have been supplied with a Bedford 330 cu in six cylinder engine.

This might help you:- https://www.flickr.com/groups/1335348@N23/

Also:- http://whotalking.com/flickr/PJK

Alternative (earlier) designation VAS5.

Reg doc says 1998cc and has a five speed box any way of checking? Definitely a six cylinder diesel so doubt it's only 2litre

330 cu ins = 5.4 litres

Rob at bedford truck parts has given a breakdown of the chassis number.
P=Forward control coach,
J =330 diesel engine,
K=6577kg,
1=short wheelbase,
B =4 speed single speed axle
ZO =chassis only
FW=1976
Rest is the unique chassis number.

Odd why my registration doc only shows a 1998cc Diesel engine. Will get cover off and have a good poke around. My van has a 2.2 turbo so must have bigger for 7.5t

I suspect some sleight of hand when the registration was changed - why was it changed from LPB 116P to OGV265P?

4 speed gearbox would be Bedford's own gearbox (as fitted to some TJs and TKs).

Quick update to let you all know how it's going.
Have fully stripped out all the interior and caravan additions.
Will be selling all the original roof panelling and trims if anyone is interested or knows of anyone that is please contact me.
Still looking for someone to do a service and once over on the bus. Will be running all the electrics soon and then insulating all the interior.
Photos to follow.